Comments on: Idea: solderless breadboard Arduino clone http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/ afowejfaiwuehfakjnfa Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:11:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: ladyada http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4279 ladyada Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:24:55 +0000 http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4279 the arduino 'stamp' is expensive probably because they aren't selling a lot. the barrel jack is big but, its also standard. you can plug in nearly any power adaptor. i like that its the same regulator and plug as the 'standard' arduino. but its really easy if you want to just remove the plug and solder in wires :) re: ethernet, sorry i'm not really likely to work on that as i'm already oversubscribed. you could offer to design your own. im also surprised they went with the '32..but isnt it pin compatible with the '644? maybe it was just cheaper or more available? may want to ask 'em. i asked why not stick with the 168 and they said its much too small. then again, the bootloader is 2K and it really should be 1K so who knows. :? the arduino ’stamp’ is expensive probably because they aren’t selling a lot. the barrel jack is big but, its also standard. you can plug in nearly any power adaptor. i like that its the same regulator and plug as the ’standard’ arduino. but its really easy if you want to just remove the plug and solder in wires :)

re: ethernet, sorry i’m not really likely to work on that as i’m already oversubscribed. you could offer to design your own. im also surprised they went with the ‘32..but isnt it pin compatible with the ‘644? maybe it was just cheaper or more available? may want to ask ‘em. i asked why not stick with the 168 and they said its much too small. then again, the bootloader is 2K and it really should be 1K so who knows. :?

]]> By: Wiley Wilkinsen http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4277 Wiley Wilkinsen Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:04:35 +0000 http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4277 Hey Ladyada, I'd be interested in finding out if you've considered making a nice simple ethernet arduino - hint, hint - even before the official comes out. It seems like on the surface it should be pretty easy since the enc28J60 has SPI serial interface couldn't you more/less just tie it directly to the inbound serial lines? I think it would be really useful to have a simple/inexpensive single board ethernet arduino based on the original(current) 168 architecture. To be honest if the tinker folks were going to go to all of the work of modifying the arduino software and rewriting the libs for a different chip I wish they'd gone to something a little more inspired than the 32 like the 644 or even the 128. I'm guessing they wouldn't do a 128 as they wouldn't want to "compete" with the wiring board but the 644 would have been a nice choice - sorry I degress. anyway, +1 for a 168 arduino ethernet board! Hey Ladyada, I’d be interested in finding out if you’ve considered making a nice simple ethernet arduino - hint, hint - even before the official comes out. It seems like on the surface it should be pretty easy since the enc28J60 has SPI serial interface couldn’t you more/less just tie it directly to the inbound serial lines? I think it would be really useful to have a simple/inexpensive single board ethernet arduino based on the original(current) 168 architecture. To be honest if the tinker folks were going to go to all of the work of modifying the arduino software and rewriting the libs for a different chip I wish they’d gone to something a little more inspired than the 32 like the 644 or even the 128. I’m guessing they wouldn’t do a 128 as they wouldn’t want to “compete” with the wiring board but the 644 would have been a nice choice - sorry I degress. anyway, +1 for a 168 arduino ethernet board!

]]> By: Wiley Wilkinsen http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4276 Wiley Wilkinsen Fri, 24 Aug 2007 19:19:48 +0000 http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4276 This is really nice - I really like the tighter format. Personally, I like the idea of having the onboard voltage regulator although the one thing that I'd get off of it if it were my design is that big honkin barrel jack - all of the other interfaces are informal why shouldn't the power interface be informal too - e.g. just a couple of solder pts, a pair of dangling lines or maybe pin headers coming off of the board. Personally I think it would be nice to see this transition to SMT - of course then the line blurs between the arduino-stamp and this. Of course now that I think about it the bigger question that one might ask is why is the Arduino Stamp so expensive relative to the Arduino NG/Decimilia - it has far fewer parts, is significantly smaller and the individual parts are cheaper than the thru-hole version. So I guess would I'd really like is basically an arduino stamp in the $20 or under range. Yours is as close as i've seen though - nicely done and keep up the good work. My $0.02 This is really nice - I really like the tighter format. Personally, I like the idea of having the onboard voltage regulator although the one thing that I’d get off of it if it were my design is that big honkin barrel jack - all of the other interfaces are informal why shouldn’t the power interface be informal too - e.g. just a couple of solder pts, a pair of dangling lines or maybe pin headers coming off of the board. Personally I think it would be nice to see this transition to SMT - of course then the line blurs between the arduino-stamp and this. Of course now that I think about it the bigger question that one might ask is why is the Arduino Stamp so expensive relative to the Arduino NG/Decimilia - it has far fewer parts, is significantly smaller and the individual parts are cheaper than the thru-hole version. So I guess would I’d really like is basically an arduino stamp in the $20 or under range. Yours is as close as i’ve seen though - nicely done and keep up the good work.

My $0.02

]]> By: ladyada http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4260 ladyada Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:52:04 +0000 http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4260 Donald: Sounds like you're doing some really nifty stuff on the development side The PCB probably wont be available for $2 because, well, thats about what I pay for the PCBs to be manufactured (by advanced circuits)! so it's likely to be $5 for a PCB. Since the biggest cost of PCB manufacture is 'setup' fees, making the PCB a bit smaller wont make a real difference in price until you order about 500. You can verify this for yourself by quoting at 4pcb.com. But since it will be open source so when it's done, you are totally free to modify and fab your own boards however you choose. If you go with Gold Phoenix and shrink the PCB down to 2.5x.8 it will be around $1.50/each wholesale for ~75 pieces (that's assuming you aren't paying for testing). (see: http://www.ladyada.net/library/pcb/costcalc.html) Donald:
Sounds like you’re doing some really nifty stuff on the development side

The PCB probably wont be available for $2 because, well, thats about what I pay for the PCBs to be manufactured (by advanced circuits)! so it’s likely to be $5 for a PCB. Since the biggest cost of PCB manufacture is ’setup’ fees, making the PCB a bit smaller wont make a real difference in price until you order about 500. You can verify this for yourself by quoting at 4pcb.com.

But since it will be open source so when it’s done, you are totally free to modify and fab your own boards however you choose.
If you go with Gold Phoenix and shrink the PCB down to 2.5x.8 it will be around $1.50/each wholesale for ~75 pieces (that’s assuming you aren’t paying for testing). (see: http://www.ladyada.net/library/pcb/costcalc.html)

]]> By: Donald Delmar Davis http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4259 Donald Delmar Davis Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:27:50 +0000 http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4259 j*b, Awesome link! I want one. Lady Ada, I was talking about just the board. I like your design alot. I disagree about the regulator but yeah that is what I am looking towards. The what I have been looking at from several layers. Mostly its a pretty decent c++ framework. I am considering writing the x-code templates to get rid of the ide and incorporate it into the next release of osx-avr http://www.osx-avr.org/. As for your assessment of the cost and manufacturing I work in a country where I pay socialist country taxes and get to live in a fascist state. I am just trying to get the accessibility built into the diy, so I can do a workshop for our group. Don. j*b, Awesome link! I want one.

Lady Ada, I was talking about just the board. I like your design alot. I disagree about the regulator but yeah that is what I am looking towards.
The what I have been looking at from several layers. Mostly its a pretty decent c++ framework. I am considering writing the x-code templates
to get rid of the ide and incorporate it into the next release of osx-avr http://www.osx-avr.org/.

As for your assessment of the cost and manufacturing I work in a country where I pay socialist country taxes and get to live in a fascist state.

I am just trying to get the accessibility built into the diy, so I can do a workshop for our group.

Don.

]]> By: ladyada http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4257 ladyada Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:28:53 +0000 http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4257 As the chip itself costs $2.50, its pretty much unlikely you will get it under $2 until the chip prices drop significantly. you could use something like the Ardunio mini but its more expensive (probably due to scale). You could probably get an 'arduino stamp' down to $7.50 in parts cost but if you what some point you have to wonder "what is an arduino"? I mean you can just buy said chip for $2.50, but then it wouldn't have an oscillator, programming header, LED, 5V regulator, reset switch, etc. Those are things I would consider essential. The reason the arduino costs "so much" (personally, I think its actually quite reasonable for what you get) is the euro is very strong against the dollar and they don't do manufacturing or assembly in china. For a lot of people, that is a reasonable trade-off. Although I will say, there does seem to be a demand for an ultra-barebones! :) As the chip itself costs $2.50, its pretty much unlikely you will get it under $2 until the chip prices drop significantly. you could use something like the Ardunio mini but its more expensive (probably due to scale).

You could probably get an ‘arduino stamp’ down to $7.50 in parts cost but if you what some point you have to wonder “what is an arduino”? I mean you can just buy said chip for $2.50, but then it wouldn’t have an oscillator, programming header, LED, 5V regulator, reset switch, etc. Those are things I would consider essential.

The reason the arduino costs “so much” (personally, I think its actually quite reasonable for what you get) is the euro is very strong against the dollar and they don’t do manufacturing or assembly in china. For a lot of people, that is a reasonable trade-off.

Although I will say, there does seem to be a demand for an ultra-barebones! :)

]]> By: jean-baptiste http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4256 jean-baptiste Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:35:08 +0000 http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4256 Hi Donald, leah buechley has made a smt arduino that fits in a drop of acrylic, you know like these chinese cheap toys we all like to explode :) it's the size of a thumbnail and instead of a pcb it is made out of conductive fabrics, so it is reshapable... pics here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14694615@N00/sets/72157601404004841/ info and IDE here: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~buechley/projects/e-textile_kit/e-textile_kit2.html cheers, j*b (dkbot paris) -- ps: hi limor, a little question, have you ever worked with garagegeeks people ? http://www.garagegeeks.org/ (they are dkbot related) ps2: tnx for your great tutorialz :) Hi Donald,

leah buechley has made a smt arduino that fits in a drop of acrylic, you know like these chinese cheap toys we all like to explode :)
it’s the size of a thumbnail and instead of a pcb it is made out of conductive fabrics, so it is reshapable…

pics here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14694615@N00/sets/72157601404004841/
info and IDE here: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~buechley/projects/e-textile_kit/e-textile_kit2.html

cheers,
j*b (dkbot paris)

–

ps: hi limor, a little question, have you ever worked with garagegeeks people ?
http://www.garagegeeks.org/ (they are dkbot related)

ps2: tnx for your great tutorialz :)

]]> By: Donald Delmar Davis http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4255 Donald Delmar Davis Wed, 15 Aug 2007 00:55:21 +0000 http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4255 Have you looked what quantities it would take to get the board down under 2? I had been looking at a variety of trimmed down versions of the arduino as well, The obvious thing is to move the power and the usb/serial off the board as the serial is mostly used for downloading and debugging and the power ranging from 3-6V is usually application dependant. The shields are unwieldy and add another couple of bucks to the cost of everything Male/Female headers. I scrapped my design when I found a board which I was able to purchase for 1.75. I would still like to see the arduino reduced to an smt based board about the size of a postage stamp with the ports brought out to an stk500 compatible pin out which may or may not need headers and that would cost about 5 bucks with the cpu. The problem with the wiring and arduino folks is that like most art supplies the !$@!@# expensive. Most of this rant and relevant links are detailed on my blog http://www.dorkbotpdx.org/blog/feurig Its not just about prototyping its about being able to roll to implementation without spending another 30. This is a nice looking design by the way. Have you looked what quantities it would take to get the board down under 2? I had been looking at a variety of trimmed down versions of the arduino as well, The obvious thing is to move the power and the usb/serial off the board as the serial is mostly used for downloading and debugging and the power ranging from 3-6V is usually application dependant. The shields are unwieldy and add another couple of bucks to the cost of everything Male/Female headers.

I scrapped my design when I found a board which I was able to purchase for 1.75. I would still like to see the arduino reduced to an smt based board about the size of a postage stamp with the ports brought out to an stk500 compatible pin out which may or may not need headers and that would cost about 5 bucks with the cpu. The problem with the wiring and arduino folks is that like most art supplies the !$@!@# expensive.

Most of this rant and relevant links are detailed on my blog http://www.dorkbotpdx.org/blog/feurig

Its not just about prototyping its about being able to roll to implementation without spending another 30.

This is a nice looking design by the way.

]]> By: Max http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4254 Max Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:41:40 +0000 http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4254 I think this sounds like a great idea. This would make prototyping much simpler. I think this sounds like a great idea. This would make prototyping much simpler.

]]> By: ladyada http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4252 ladyada Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:37:39 +0000 http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2007/08/idea-solderless-breadboard-arduino-clone/#comment-4252 yup i have a barebones arduino, i liked the idea! this is 'somewhat' similar, but i wanted it to sit right on top of the breadboard yup i have a barebones arduino, i liked the idea! this is ’somewhat’ similar, but i wanted it to sit right on top of the breadboard

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